Barbara Alcaraz Silva - J.P. Morgan - Part 3

Intro - 00:00:01: Welcome to the Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee. In our last episode, we spoke with Barbara Alcaraz Silva about her graduate school lab experience at UC Irvine and her time at the Beckman Laser Institute, where she did groundbreaking research on DNA repair using lasers. We also talked about her international fellowship at King's College London, where she explored stem cell biology and how her transition to entrepreneurship was shaped by navigating different lab environments and overcoming funding challenges. If you missed it, be sure to go back and give Part 2 a listen. In Part 3, we talk with Barbara about her transition from academia to entrepreneurship, co-founding a biotech company focusing on aging research using AI, and the challenges of early stage company building. We also discuss Barbara's shift to supporting other entrepreneurs, mentoring at different accelerators, and investing in up-and-coming startups while at Life Science Angels.

Jon - 00:01:25: This lab is wrapping up and you're now deciding to be an entrepreneur. Talk a little bit about that.

Barbara - 00:01:30: Yeah, so and that was a little bit before we kind of like run out of funding because as soon as I move into the city, I realized that everybody's building a startup.

Jon - 00:01:40: Yeah.

Barbara - 00:01:42: And it's like, what is this? I had no concept of that. I didn't take any entrepreneurial classes. Like now every single university has that. And I remember going to multiple networking events. And one of the reasons is because I had to eat too, you know, your salary doesn't cover that. So I had to figure out other ways to support myself. And of course, there were so many networking events. I remember going to a networking event at Twitter. And it was great because then, I think that was the time that Jack Dorsey was running the company. And he was..

Jon - 00:02:20: Just a level. So what year roughly was

Barbara - 00:02:23: That is 2014?

Jon - 00:02:24: Okay, so that era of very different Twitter than Twitter now.

Barbara - 00:02:28:

Yeah, exactly. Oh, no, yeah. Well, I guess now it's called X.

Jon - 00:02:32: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I still can't unpack that. I still call it Twitter.

Barbara - 00:02:36: So, yeah, that was 10 years ago. And it's interesting because by attending all these networking events, and I realized that there was a movement of creation, not only in tech, but also in biotech and any single discipline within life sciences. And I started getting connected to other founders, other PhDs that had an interest in creating their own company. So in this specific event, it's very interesting because then it took me to two different ways eventually. So I got connected to an investor. And at the time, I didn't know what it was at BC either. I mean.

Jon - 00:03:13: It's better that you don't know. It's better that you don't know.

Barbara - 00:03:16: Exactly, right?

Jon - 00:03:17: You get nervous. I would just start sweating. I'm like, ah. Yeah.

Barbara - 00:03:21: And then we started having a discussion, I share more about what I was doing, all my career, and then I was very focused on cancer and aging. And she was like, oh, my God, I'm looking at this company, and I have the deck. Would you be interested in telling me whether the data is good or not, whether they have potential? And I had no idea what she was talking about, but I never said no. 

Jon - 00:03:46: Yeah. Yeah. 

Barbara - 00:03:46: I was like, for sure.

Jon - 00:03:48: Yeah. 

Barbara - 00:03:48: I can write you a summary memo.

Jon - 00:03:50: Yeah. That's amazing.

Barbara - 00:03:53: But I had no idea what it was like. And then, of course, she sends me the info and I drafted the details and I share more about the insights of the company. And interesting enough, because I call some friends who were doing consulting. It's like, okay, you need to add a little bit more about the competitive landscape. I was like, okay.

Jon - 00:04:14: Yeah, yeah.

Barbara - 00:04:15: So that's how I started. And then I became super interested. It's like, I have this interesting background. And I'm very focused on DNA repair, cancer, aging, mostly aging, ran into another scientist. We met at the entrepreneurship center at the time at UCSF. And we were taking a class and she was also doing aging. She was very focused on aging and that's how we became acquainted and we were like, you know what? If you're interested, we should build something. And we became co-founders. So we had an idea. And literally, that's how we pushed the idea. We went through the program, the Assetor program that they have. And they were offering and built the company from scratch. And we worked on that project for two years. And it was an incredible journey because eventually we brought another co-founder, women as well. She was our engineer. And what we were looking at, it was comparing chronological age versus biological age in using data and indicators as well. And we were using AI at the time, right? Now everybody is talking about AI, but it was like...

Jon - 00:05:33: It was before it was cool, okay, everyone?

Barbara - 00:05:35: It was before it was cool.

Jon - 00:05:36:

Barbara's a hip. It's hip. Super hip. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Barbara - 00:05:40:

And it's interesting because then every time that we'll pitch either to an investor or somebody, they will be a little bit confused because it's like, this is, how is this helpful? And it was either people would love it or hate it. And we realized that we were a little bit too early, very much very early.

Jon - 00:06:02: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Barbara - 00:06:03: And I think that's when longevity started emerging, because you have all these funds, partners, interests. But not really people very focused with the expertise. So after two years then we decided to stop. And there were different things, I mean for me personally, I started becoming more interested in supporting other entrepreneurs. And my co-founder Nina had a baby. And it's difficult being a female entrepreneur. So every time I meet a female entrepreneur, I always try to be supportive with anything, with an introduction. So it was a challenging time for us. But I think for me, instead of pitching our idea, our project, I was pitching somebody else's project because I found it so innovative. And that's when I started helping other entrepreneurs as well, while still at UCSF during that transition. So we ran out of funding then because I still was trying to figure out what to do. Then I found another position at UCSF as a program manager. And that gave me so much, you know, I learned a lot and gained a lot of expertise because then I was managing different projects, not in the laboratory setting per se, but managing grants, working with different research institutions, again, working with Kaiser, with Harvard. We were working on an AI project, so we were writing a grant, you know, super focused on AI and developing algorithms. So that's something that I, I mean, it was super useful for me.

Jon - 00:07:44: Absolutely.

Barbara - 00:07:44: [inaudible] doing the company, but also later in life, right? Now that everybody's talking about AI, I'm like, okay, well. Technically anybody can build an algorithm if you have the money to pay for it.

Jon - 00:07:55: Yeah. And I think regardless of the outcome of those experiences, it's always like, I always think about it just like you are acquiring skill sets and breadth of knowledge and you've been there and through it. And those are the types of things that are like, I don't know, it's like seared into your DNA, right? And I can imagine when you're running your startup, I'm thinking about all the way back to your first, while you're in community college, your first learning how to do the accounting and the bookkeeping. It's like, now it's like game time. Like it's time to put it and apply for your own, your own company. And you don't know at that time how that skill set is going to, eventually, become useful to you. But those are the things where exactly what you said, saying yes to putting your hand up, say, I'm willing to try this and I'm willing to get this experience. I'm hoping for the best, but I, either way, I'm, this is going to, you know, kind of level me up. It's really inspiring. Because sometimes that's all it takes is just like, I'm willing to do it and I want to learn and I'm going to, and I'm going to learn.

Barbara - 00:09:05: And you don't know where it's going to take you, by the way, because if I have said no, then I probably have lost that opportunity of learning something new or being helpful, right? And at some point, you figure it out. If you say yes and you had no idea, you just do the research.

Jon - 00:09:21: Yeah. And especially nowadays, it's an amazing thing. I think back on like the kind of 2013, 14 era of startup creation, company creation, super different, super different. And that's right around the first couple of years of Excedr. There were like YouTube had no entrepreneurship resources, people were still driving the Sand Hill Road to meet VCs. Nowadays, you can do it over Zoom. All of these, like a lot of the information was like kind of behind closed doors or just much harder to find. So it's critically important to just like, especially back then, just getting as much experience as you can and trying to add, put that arrow in your quiver. And so, it sounds like with your startup, you're a project manager at UCSF, you are then, you are piecing together. Like, you know, I know you kind of manage collaboration with Harvard, Kaiser. You're like, you're managing a lot of stakeholders too. I guess when you reflect on this kind of, these years of your startup and working at UCSF as a project manager, what were some like key lessons learned for you or like, you know, challenges and triumphs for you?

Barbara - 00:10:35: I mean, definitely, the key lessons is finding good partners and collaborators, right? Because then later in life, you will find that that's key. You know, like you need to have a really good team to be able to collaborate and communicate. Like that's another key point. Like you have to communicate or over communicate. And if you don't know, you have to be honest and say, you know what? I don't know, but I have this partner who can help us, right? Because when things don't move, that's when teams struggle or there is bottlenecks. And I mean, we need to keep the ball rolling. So those are the two most important things. And also when you're building a team, I mean, like communication, the skill sets are super essential. So if teammates don't communicate, then things don't move. And I have seen failures in companies because there's always a clash between founders, right? So it's not only about getting the most talented person, you know, like two people, amazing people working together. It's like the skill sets, the values have to be complimentary. Do you guys have the same vision, right? So I think managing projects at UCSF was super helpful for me to transfer those skill sets into the startup. And I think that's why we continue, you know, for some time, it wasn't a long time, but it was super helpful for the three of us. Initially we were two co-founders and eventually it was three. And again, it was an incredible journey because I do speak to my former co-founder once in a while. And I'm like, you go back to memory lane. It was like, remember we're doing this and it was, it's incredible. And maybe. Wasn't the time, but it could be in the future. You never know, right? And finding that partnership, that person that you know, you can work together and you did so well. And it was just because of the circumstances, you know, back in the day, we just didn't have funding and it was a little bit early. So we always chat and I always think about like, if we have done this before 2019. I will be in a different position right now. 

Jon - 00:12:51: Yeah, yeah. I completely agree because sometimes you're excited with the technology. You're excited at the prospect of starting a company. You can sometimes, again, override your gut that perhaps this co-founder relationship perhaps isn't the most aligned. And you're right. I see it all the time as well. Company death is very rarely from the powers that be, the external. A lot of the time, you're getting torn apart from the inside because you have a material disagreement with your stakeholder. I'm thinking about when you were a grad student and you had an undergraduate, you found alignment. You're like, what do you want? What do I want? Can we both make these both work? And the same thing in a company is like, what do you want? What do I want? Can we make this work and sustainably and actually not be at each other's throats?

Barbara - 00:13:42: You know, it's a marriage. I mean, first of all, the passion needs to be there. You know, people need to be aligned, as you mentioned. You need to have the passion, the commitment, because it's exhausting. You are pretty much putting your own money there and putting your own resources. But at the end of the day, it's a marriage, right? So you need to think about, you know, if you have a co-founder, if you're building a company, this is a long-term relationship that probably, you're going to spend more time with this person versus your significant other or your family. So, yeah.

Jon - 00:14:17: Yeah. And I honestly, I think it's probably in America, probably easier to get a divorce in a marriage than it is to do a company breakup. It's not an exaggeration that this is commitment is very, very serious and long term. And the other thing that really, you know, I agree with and stood out to me is that is knowing when to say, I don't know, but perhaps my colleague does know. And it's totally okay to say, I don't know. Like that's not a that's not a sign of weakness. That's just like, hey, my strength is here, not there. But I'm going to find someone who has that answer because that is their strength, specifically their strength. So for any of the founders out there who are kind of like going through this and trying to effectively communicate, not a sign of weakness to not know. It is totally okay. 

Barbara - 00:15:08: And it's better because then you know that you are a really good communicator. If you don't say anything, then that's a red flag, right? People are chasing you. People are trying to figure out, okay, did you finish this? Or give me an update on this. So it's better to be honest and say, you know what, I don't know it, but I'm doing the research and I'm trying to figure it out or bringing somebody. So that goes along the way. So, yeah. 

Jon - 00:15:34: Incredibly important. And so I know after this kind of era, you ended up advising for the accelerator in biotech and medtech. Can you talk about your advisory roles for this accelerator?

Barbara - 00:15:47: Yeah. And I ended up doing so many things. That wasn't the only thing. So I then joined an angel group still around called Life Sciences Angels. And then I became a mentor of an incubator, accelerator. It's more of an accelerator. It's a Latino accelerator, Manos, which Manos means two hands or multiple hands. But with Life Sciences Angels, then it was an incredible experience because then at the time I was like, well, if. This is not the time for me to be an entrepreneur, then what else can I do? Oh, I can become an investor. .

Jon - 00:16:27: Yeah. 

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Barbara - 00:16:28: That was another.

Jon - 00:16:30: Yeah.

Barbara - 00:16:30: Completely. And that was because of the person that I met at this networking event, who was the ambassador.

Jon - 00:16:39: At Twitter?

Barbara - 00:16:41: At Twitter, because I mean, she did not make the introduction per se, but because I had an interest. That's when I learned about ambassadors and me seeing the ecosystem. So then I started doing research about ambassadors, angel groups. And I learned about Life Sciences Angels because a good friend of mine now, he's a good friend of mine. But at the time, he was another postdoc that I ran into and another networking event. And he's like, oh, I'm part. He gave me his card. And I was like, what is this Life Sciences Angels? I was like, oh, yeah, I'm part of it. I'm doing a fellowship. You know, literally what we do, we screen companies, we do diligence for the ambassadors. And I was like, okay, okay. And then eventually I follow up with him as I how can I become part of it? 

Jon - 00:17:26: Yeah. Yeah.

Barbara - 00:17:28: And so I went through the interview process because you have to apply, submit all your, you know, all your resume. I think they gave me a case study and Wei, who is also a good friend of mine now, but she was the one who did my interview. She was so hard. She's like, okay, tell me about your best biotech company, early stage that you want to talk about and why it's interesting. So we were talking about assets and she went so deep and I'm like, okay. Then I got in and what they had, it was incredible because then there were a lot of opportunities for postdocs, mostly postdocs at the time, because all the fellows that joined during my time, they were postdocs. And we will join the committee meetings. And we were the ones that were the gatekeepers. So we will go into the system and check for all the startups that apply for funding or to pitch to the ambassadors. And we were the ones who were selecting those companies and bringing them to pitch to the ambassadors and saying, okay, why do I think that this is an interesting opportunity? And we'll present the company on our Monday weekly meetings. Actually, it was every week. I don't even know how I was able to do that. So I will drive to Sand Hill Road and get to the meeting. And it was it was so much fun. So I did that for a few years. And then. And I think that's when I really realized I love this because I love looking at different technologies. Very early stage. And looking at the potential, looking at the data and developing my own market map and what is available, right? And at the end of the day, it's also meeting different interesting founders, entrepreneurs, PhDs, MDs that they're they have so much knowledge. You know, they have worked on this for years or they have the expertise. So that's something that I really enjoy. And then from there, then I decided, you know what, this is what I want to do. And I was so sure. And then it took me into a different direction. 

Jon - 00:19:37: I agree. I think Excedr has always had this kind of like focus on the early stage ecosystem and a big part of it, at least for me personally. And I think I can speak for the team as well, is that it's so inspirational to see this early stage technology and how much it can really just seriously move the needle in big, big ways. And seeing the passion behind it is just infectious. So every day I'm like I get pumped up, I get energized and it's like it fills my cup, you know, having these conversations with folks who are just starting to embark on this journey. For Excedr, you know, I was like, you guys are way smarter than me. You guys are going to, you guys will be the rock star. We'll play our supporting role. But if we can play a little part and help you get there, that's always like, you know, for me, I like that. I count that as a win. My parents sometimes will send me a text message. They'll be like, is that the company that you work with? I'm like. And they're like, so they're so stoked and something to, and this is not a little bit of a digression detour. My parents, for me as a child of immigrants also stayed in California, like not so far from like, I haven't left. I've been, I've been in California pretty much my whole life, just the Bay area. So you're not alone in that experience.

Barbara - 00:21:01: That's unusual.

Jon - 00:21:03: I don't know if that's a good for you because I'm like, sometimes my friends are like, have you seen the world? And I'm like, oh.

Barbara - 00:21:10: Have you seen the Bay Area and all the technology?

Jon - 00:21:13: Exactly. Have you seen the Bay Area? I think it's awfully cool out here. So you want you guys come over here. Very rad. So you're at Life Science Angels now, and it sounds like you're truly getting a crash course in investing. Can you talk about that experience? You've been a scientist, you've been an entrepreneur, but now you're on the other side of the table. Talk to us about a little bit about that experience as an investor in learning.

Barbara - 00:21:37: It was a great experience. It was a privilege, to be honest, because then you have a power. You're in the power seat, literally. And you're making the decision. So through all this experience, like you gain the knowledge of how to do diligence. Because, of course, there's other fellows, other postdocs that have been doing this for a while. Not necessarily for Life Sciences, Life Science Angels, but other funds as well. Because I remember, like, I had a few colleagues that they were doing, already working on other funds or advising other funds. So that was incredible. So the amount of knowledge, it was so packed. And also it put you into the spot that is like, I need to do better and bring good companies. Because even though we're not competing, everybody's looking at what you're bringing.

Jon - 00:22:23: Yep.

Barbara - 00:22:24: Right? So in learning the process of screening a company, you know, looking at the deck very quickly because it's not, you know, for all the founders out there. You don't think that I mean, don't think that the investor is spending so much time reading every single slide. I mean, I will spend less than a minute screening the tech, looking at the summary, their application, where are the founders coming from? Where is the technology coming from? How long has it been around? How much are they asking? How much is their fundraising? And all of that and putting it together is small summary and bringing the company to present. And of course, once you, I mean, once you screen it, then I will call the founders and learn more to do a little bit more diligence and get to know the team and then make a decision and then bring the company to pitch. And after, you know, because the company will present and we will drill them. And it was so funny because then it gets into a point that, because everybody has science background, that is like, you need to stop asking all these scientific questions, you know, it gets into a point that we actually are making a decision because what they're developing, it's going to make an impact in the market of patients' lives. Like, let's stop there. And I do remember there were some interesting companies that the diligence never stopped and we lost the deal. You know, like we never decided not to invest because we just keep asking so many specific questions about the technology and the science. And then I remember that company, I brought a company that ended up eventually acquired for a lot by one of the big pharma companies. And then I was proud because I was like, okay, I did a good job, even though they didn't end up investing. So it was, it was a great experience. And then allow me to meet other founders. And make more colleagues because a good friend of mine now, he was in this biotech company. They were developing assets for oncology. Incredible presentation. I brought the company. They did so well. And they answer every single question. And of course, it takes a little bit more capital to fund a therapeutics company. And you're presenting to an angel group. So it's sometimes it's most of, most of the time it's not a fit, right? And I remember I had to go back and tell him, no, thank you, but no, we're not. And they thought that they did so well that we were going to fund the company. And, and I was the one who told them no. And it's interesting because now he's an investor. 

Jon - 00:25:04: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The table's turned.

Barbara - 00:25:06: And we go together and because people ask us, hey, how you guys met? Well, technically, I pitched to Barbara and Barbara said no to me.

Jon - 00:25:15: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'll never forget.

Barbara - 00:25:18: Exactly. And he's doing so well. You know, he ended up working in an interesting biotech company then in a big fund. And now last year, he joined into another very good fund. So, yeah, and I'm sure I can say his name otherwise and I'll text him. But his name is Eric. Eric Gomez, who was at Mubadala Capital for a while. Now, he's at The Column Group. So when I met him, literally, I was the one who said no to him. Like, we're not going to fund your company. Sorry. 

Jon - 00:25:49: Comforts were cool.

Barbara - 00:25:50: Exactly.

Jon - 00:25:52: Something that really stood out to me kind of as you were describing your experience, the first one is for founders who are on the fundraising kind of motion. Effective communication, like how quickly can you convey on a deck to an investor such that it would tee it up the next meeting? 

Barbara - 00:26:11: I think the funds, right? The funds. Because most of the funds, they have a lot of support associates that are screening all those companies. Ideally, it's better if you connect with one of the partners, right, of the fund or whoever you're pitching. The more data you add, it's better, actually. You know, the story needs to be sure. But the more data you add, like, okay, if you have multiple assets, and I think that's helpful because if there is an interest, immediately we can dig in. And I'm no longer an investor, by the way, so the investors can immediately dig in and reach out. Because I've been also doing the same research, asking to other investors, because now I'm in the, I'm now Switzerland, where I support founders and I support investors too.

Jon - 00:26:59: Yep.

Barbara - 00:27:00: And I do research both ways, figuring out, asking the investors, okay, do you think it's better for a founder to add? You know, how long the pitch needs to be. And like, is it better if they add more data? And most of them, they said, yes, please go ahead and add more data, right? And it's not because they're going to steal the idea. It's just more about, they want to get to know exactly what the company is developing quickly though. Like, they can screen if it's not interesting, but if it's interesting, then they spend more time, right?

Jon - 00:27:29: Absolutely. And I think something too, and maybe I just want to like, just clarify my commentary. Don't make it so simple that it doesn't have data, but more of how can you efficiently communicate as simple as possible, but not any simpler, like try to distill. And there's another thing too, that as a former bench scientist, I way back when didn't appreciate the importance of like a good like deck design and having it actually be interesting and captivating visually. Because that's another way to stand out is like having great design because you kind of tap. Jake Glanville talks about it. His mother is an artist, so he lived up in an artistic kind of environment. But having a deck that not only has the data and is really effective in communicating, but beautiful design sign really make you stand out when an investor is probably getting 150 decks.

Barbara - 00:28:25: Yeah. Oh, thousands.

Jon - 00:28:27: Thousands. Yeah. How? Like, how do you even stand out? Let's not, as scientists, I know it's easy to just be like, just the data, that's all that matters. But there's other elements too. And also, in company building, that's like, you know, I'm starting to kind of extrapolate a little bit more and more, is that science got to be sound and the data has got to be sound. But also, the team chemistry, all of these other elements of company building are, you know, what an investor, the investor wants to know. Like, does this team have the ability to go the distance? Clearly, the science is very good, but can you get it into the clinic and beyond? That's a long time. And you got to understand operations. You got to understand finance and hiring and all of these things. So it's multifaceted. And I guess the other, for Eric, it's like, you giving him.

Barbara - 00:29:21: I know we're grilling Eric. 

Jon - 00:29:23: Yeah, sorry, Eric. The element that I think founders, you know, look, saying getting a no when you're pouring your heart into your company sucks. Sucks. I won't even pretend that it doesn't suck. It sucks. But if it makes any founder feel a little bit better, it's that investors also have their own theses. Like you said, like, oh, that's like really capital intensive. That's a therapeutics company. We don't like that. SF for the longest time has been a software town. It still is. But with software, you don't need a massive lab space with a bunch of equipment and plowing R&D into a pipeline asset. So you can imagine that you need to find alignment with your investor, too, where it's like, if this investor doesn't like capital intensity and what you're pitching is capital intensity, maybe it's just a bad fit there. Maybe you don't fit into their bucket. And that's okay.

Barbara - 00:30:24: Yeah, and especially for founders, I mean, doing the research ahead of time, because especially when you're building your company for the first time and you know that you need to reach out to investors, you need to do your own diligence. Who is the partner that I need to talk to? Who is the fund that I need to talk to and whether they're a fit, right? And there is great tools out there. They can help you to do the research, maybe also connecting with other founders to figure it out. Because a lot of the support that we do or now I do is making that connectivity. And sometimes the founders, they come to me and I'm like, you know what? You're not a fit for this fund. Why are you pushing yourself to pitch to them? They're going to say no to you. So it's a lot also on their part, but you don't know until you start trying, right? So building that community of support is super helpful. 

Jon - 00:31:18: Absolutely.

Barbara - 00:31:19: And sometimes it's great because then once somebody else helps you and they say, oh, by the way, X, Y, Z fund, they're super helpful. And, you know, it's a perfect match. However, they invested in a similar company or maybe they have appetite or they run out of funding already because they deploy their capital and now they're raising another fund. And I don't know. So everything needs to be aligned and you have to do all the research in order to get into that point.

Jon - 00:31:49: Yeah, and I'll say too is that I'm excited for founders now because there's all these tools and availability, but there are leaders like you, Barbara, who can help. You talked about being this liaison, working between the capital and the actual company. And you're making sure that, hey, just as a heads up, this is a hypothetical now. This is not a real, but it's like, hey, that fund doesn't invest here or they're on the tail end of their fund. Perhaps right now is not the best time to do a pitch, but maybe look here, right? And that saves everybody time. Like it just makes for a far more efficient process because I remember early days that was very hard to do. Like in 2013, like driving the Sand Hill Road and just banging on like Sequoia door and just being like, hey, I have an idea. And they're like, this doesn't fit into any of our buckets. And then you're like, okay, I guess I'm going to the next. Hey, Excel, will you fund me? And now it's like you have this kind of support network and community and also available self-serve tools as well, which are very, very important. So you are now well versed in early stage investing.

Outro - 00:33:05: That's all for this episode of the Biotech Startups podcast. We hope you enjoyed our discussion with Barbara Alcaraz Silva. Tune into Part 4 of our conversation to learn more about her journey. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave us a review and share it with your friends. Thanks for listening and we look forward to having you join us again on the Biotech Startups podcast for Part four of Barbara's story. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr. Don't want to miss an episode? Search for the Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com. On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.